12,500 owners say Tesla batteries don’t damage from repeated Fast Charging
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Battery experts I have talked to totally disagree with the assertion that fast charging does not degrade batteries.I avoid fast charging my phone with the super convenient round magnetic 🧲 adapters 👍😊
Viking. I have Recurrent monitoring and their survey isn't just by asking. They actually upload data from the vehicle for every charging session and all the battery statistics. If they are saying this for Teslas, it most likely is a fact.
Toss out all anecdotal evidence. Discard survey evidence. The only data you need should be what comes directly from the cars themselves.
I’ve read recurrent monitors the car’s battery and range, so it’s not self reported by owners.
BMS, Battery Management SYSTEM.
I would like to see a study about regenerative braking when the battery is full vs not… And similarly the opposite situation aggressive acceleration and driving until the battery is empty.
Thanks Sam. I keep watching daily, I hope it helps. Your content is great.
No SUPRiSE
"Tesla is a moving target" 🎯
. —+- Herbert Diess -+–
When it comes to "EVs" , No car company will ever catch Tesla ❕️
how would the owners know ?
I mainly fast charge my Tesla since I don’t own a house and have a home charger. And it’s been just fine. Not everybody lives or own a home to have a charger installed. I always laughed when people say you shouldn’t fast charge often.
Evening mate you get to sleep
Always best to follow the manufacturers guidelines for reasons of liability and longevity regardless of internet "anecdata". Recently the max recommended charge limit on our '23 MY dropped from 90% to 80% after an update. Sounds Tesla found something about that limit that impacted range degradation for the worse.. but dunno.
There's one thing to consider. When DC fast charging, most systems will only allow up to 80% charge. When charging at home, Level 1 and Level 2 charging will allow up to 100% state of charge, which will degrade the battery more quickly. If home charging is limited to the recommended 80%, I do believe, that the batteries would indeed last longer. If you attempt a 100% charge on a fast charger, the charge rate will throttle back, and as you near the end, the power draw will be similar to a Level 1 charge rate, just before the session is complete.
We fast charge alot as pretty much every trip is a road trip.. We are in a remote area. However, this means that when the car sits at home, it usually has 50% or lower state of charge. Just enough to be certain to get to a supercharger if we need to. When we have good solar days (off grid) we will charge the car up higher, however this lower state of charge when resting will increase the life of the battery. When we were tracking battery health we were better than other model 3 of similar mileage.. Not a huge sample as we are over 130,000 in 2 years.
Cheers Sam
Recurrent collects Tesla data by checking in with the vehicle's battery management system three to five times per day. Recurrent records the odometer mileage, state of charge, estimated range, and charging status. I think they would know whether owners charge using L2 or at Super charger without asking the owners to fill out a survey.
We have 2 2019 Nissan Leaf Pluses. One Leaf Plus is driven back and forth from Kansas/Chicago and heavily DC charged as my kid lives in an apartment. Out other Leaf Ppus is a commuter between the burbs and Chicago. The DC charged Leaf after 4 years is at 93% SOH and the commuter 90%. My experiences are consistent with others in the Leaf forums for gen 2.
Recurrent reads data from the car or requires screen shots of your dash
The issue with the Leaf is not the BMS but the lack of water cooling of the pack.
I have fast charge my phone battery multiple times a day for Years and I dont see any negative effects.
I expect Tesla collects data on SOH and charging from customer cars, so they should have a good handle on this.
BMS is Battery Management System, not Software. Software is just part of the full system.
That is the problem with statistics. The details matter. The statement might be true in aggregate, but like you properly point out, when segregating the data by climate for instance, you might easily see a subset of data with statistically greater battery degradation, and with a statistically significant correlation to climate. Statistics is great, but you have to really pay attention to the data and what is actually is telling you.
My tank of fuel lasts just as long and will continue to do so..
EV's, what a great step forward in technology.😂
TESLA makes the best BEVs, HAS THE BEST BATTERY MANAGEMENT (BMS), and the best BEV community. There is NO BEV community that even compares. Cheers Viking!
NEWSFLASH: The new model 3 has just dropped. Mat over at Carwow has scooped a review in the flesh.
I think that the members of the 'high mileage' Tesla group probably have older cars with older batteries and battery technology. I have a hard time believing that a company that is constantly improving on every front would let their battery technology lag behind. I have a 2020 model y LR and I supercharge exclusively. I don't believe that what was true pre Model Y is true post Model Y. I think it's a case of people parroting what they've heard since the early days even though there's no real evidence that it's still true today. All the apps that claim to have insight into your battery's capacity are making educated guesses. Your range is based on your driving habits. My range estimates change with my habits. If I have a slow month with little driving, the car tells me I can go farther on a charge then when I'm driving 7 days a week at varying speeds. I think only Tesla knows or can find out the actual capacity of my battery and every other way is an educated guess at best. I doesn't matter though, because I love dumping miles on this car and I'll do the same when I trade it in next week (and take my FSD with me) for an 2023 MYP. Love your videos.
What I heard for now is the same with the Ioniq 5. Since in US Ioniq 5 get free DC fast charging for 2 years, many do only fast free charging. This said, Tesla, and Ioniq5 battery pack temperature are liquid controlled. In my Ioniq 5 to the point to get maximum charging speed in 30 Celsius ambiant, I must turn off A/C to allow full cooling to the battery pack. I don't know what is the limit for each Li-ion technologies, but I know some show cell will not degrade until they reach 35 Celsius, some are way higher depending of the chemistry. Then, maybe it's possible in the long term too ?
Sam, perhaps you can do a video on the taxi service that drive Teslas between Los Angeles and Las Vegas? They did nothing but super charge all day all night….
Heat is the issue. If charging isn't associated with heating that pushes a battery beyond its design limits then it won't cause anything more that within spec degradation over the long term.
Now, the BMS has the job to make sure that nothing out of spec happens during charging. Yes, if you trickle charge an EV battery over its life it will probably last a bit longer but the BMS isn't there to put your battery at risk.
Batteries are getting better and are being engineered to tolerate high current charging better. Greater uniformity in the crystalline structures of battery electrodes seems to be something that is having a positive benefit in that regard. Batteries will still heat up during charging but the art is to engineer them so that they don't heat up as much.
Graphene in advanced electrodes seems to make a remarkable difference to cell and battery heating while charging. That makes sense because graphene dramatically reduces battery impedance which in turn reduces heating. Graphene is also in common use in supercapacitors which tolerate rapid high power charges and discharges with aplomb. Graphene must surely be a candidate material for use in EV batteries because it promises to improve on the existing best practice where cycle life and tolerance to high current charging are concerned. Of course, pricing of graphene will have to come down if it is to find widespread use in EV batteries.
I still have 93% of my 2015 leaf battery… so my antidotal study says they are right 😂
I have 2023 Model 3. Supercharger 3 times a day 20-80. Lost 13 miles of range after 27K miles in 4 months
I disagree with this. 12.5K is a good and significant study. Also, the owners did not take a survey, and in fact, told them nothing. This is software that monitors your charging and batter pack degradation over time.
Hey Sam been watching for a long time and subscribed but never commented. I’m currently using a rental dual motor model 3 from hertz. These cars are exclusively only being supercharged. It currently has almost 60k miles and I’m only getting 150 miles of range. This is not true the reason I know is that I’ve rented in the past and got well over 270 miles on a car with much less miles
Recurrent Service actually does have direct data on Battery's . When you sign up at the website you release the data Tesla collects or the car collects about every charge cycle. You are allowed to get reports on your battery's health at anytime.
👍👍
They did test with two polestar cars. 200tkm fast charged car had 20% less range than charged at home.
If you fast charge everyday there is a change you can have a 15 % degradation of the battery. This was tested on a 2021 tesla model Y that was used as a taxi !!
Tested by bjorn nyland.
Actual published scientific research shows that fast charging causes micro fractures and this is where dendrites grow, causing a cell to fail. In a glued together 4850 battery pack, this means the entire battery needs to be discarded. The take home meassage is, do not fast charge.
Dont be fooled folks. It is a moot point anyhow, as 90% of all ev charging events in the us are at home.
People don't even drive 40 km daily…so there's rarely any reason to fastcharge.
Better have a car with two charging plugs.
Tesla-Björn knew this years ago.
Just don't charge it like your phone. Never empty – never full!
Glad to see Recurrent post this. Recurrent did do a large scale study Sam, 12,500 cars is plenty. This isn't just a "Survey". Recurrent monitors the actual battery capacities, it's not a "survey", it's consistent monitoring of vehicles over time. BTW Sam the analysis they did was for many brands of vehicles, not just Tesla. The reports you see online are not data, they are opinions and should be taken with a pinch of salt.
I have discussed this with folks online since 2011. Many claimed rapid charging impacts the battery. I argued it does not anymore than driving the car. Driving a car on the interstate stresses the battery just as much as rapid charging does. i.e. not that much.
It's about time a company like Recurrent reported the facts rather than all the opinions we have been subjected to for decades.